Growing Up IB: Jiana Shah 3.0

Four years ago, IB Matters first spoke with Jiana Shah when she was a 14-year-old MYP student. We caught up with her again as she entered the Diploma Programme. Now, Jiana returns for a third conversation, having completed an IB education that began in kindergarten.

Jiana reflects candidly on the challenges and rewards of the DP, from Math AA and a surprisingly useful Chemistry IA to her Extended Essay, CAS experiences, and a remarkable change of heart about Theory of Knowledge. She also shares a student’s perspective on using AI without allowing it to do the thinking for you.

As she prepares for university studies in Milan and Paris, Jiana looks back on how IB shaped the way she learns, questions, researches, and sees the world—and why, despite the challenges, she “would not have it any other way.”

Here is the link to Jean's episode when she was 14 (S3:E9)

Here is the episode when she was 16 - entering the DP (S

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Transcript

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Jiana Shah 0:00

Yeah, I don't get why I was skeptical because I am not joking. The T OK was hands down the best course I've done from the IB, and that includes all of my subjects and all all the CATS requirements, all the services action, everything. The TOK is to put it in simple words, if I had to do the TOK for the rest of my life as a student, I would.

Jon Peterson 0:25

Hi folks, welcome back to IB Matters. And boy, what a treat I have for you today. This is the third time we visited with this young person. Gianna Shaw is back. We're calling it Gianna Shaw 3.0 because I first spoke to Gianna four years ago when she was a 14-year-old MYP student. And then we talked to her a couple years ago when she was just entering the diploma program. And here she is, a graduate of the diploma program, and she's here to catch us up with what's been going on. And we're going to hear some impressions that she's had now that she's completed. If I'm not mistaken, Gianna, you've been an IB student your whole life, all the way from PYP. Is that right?

Jiana Shah 1:02

Yeah, that's true. I mean, ever since kindergarten, I even did the EYP. So it kind of feels weird to not be a part of the IB anymore.

Jon Peterson 1:09

Yeah, well, this is a rare treat for us, a rare occasion for us to be able to hear from a student that's been in the IB all the way through. We sometimes call them continuum students because they've been in the whole continuum. So, Gianna, let's just get reacquainted. Why don't you introduce yourself again to people that haven't heard you before and maybe tell us about where all this began.

Jiana Shah 1:28

So, hey everyone. Um Gianna. I did the IB program my entire life. So since kindergarten, EYP, PYP, MYP, and the DP, I've done only the IP. I've had, oh boy, what a roller coaster ride with this specific program. If you go back and listen to, I think a 14-year-old and a 16-year-old Gianna, you'll see how excited she was about the MYP and then the DP and just overall what the IP entails when you say that you're a continuum student. But yeah, I'm super excited to speak to John today, as well as you guys, give you a perspective on what students think about the IB and what my impressions were going into DP and what my impressions now are once I've once now that I've graduated. So yeah, super excited to speak to everyone today. And yeah, John and I, we've been in touch sporadically over the last I think four years. So, in a way, you guys have also seen my IB journey, and I hope that I can give you some perspective from a student's point of view.

Jon Peterson 2:33

That's great. Thank you. So remind folks where you're located and what school you went to or schools you went to.

Jiana Shah 2:39

Yeah, so I've been in one school my entire life. I went to Fountainhead School. It's in the western part of India, and it had all four programs. So essentially all the way from EYP to DP. I've been in the same school. So yeah, it's as much a part of my school life as it is when it comes to specifically being just an IB student.

Jon Peterson 3:00

Yeah. So what other activities did you have besides school? What were your outside activities and interests?

Jiana Shah 3:07

I would say there were like two big categories, and that was definitely one was debate and model UN, and the other was service. So I did a lot of debate competitions, model UN conferences. Eventually I started chairing them, organizing them. I was the president of the debate and model UN club. And from a service point of view, I started a bunch of projects to help indigenous tribal members near my in my state. So we would conduct educational reform for workshops for students. And then also financial literacy programs were put in place for rural women who were looking to be small business owners. So yeah, that I would say that was a huge part of my life outside of school when it came to extracurriculars, but more on the fun side, I also pursued filmmaking and I made a bunch of films. I now run a media account because my school offered a Pearson B tech diploma in creative media. So that's another thing that I found out that hey, I could be interested in this too. So yeah, those three I would say have been have taken up most of my time outside of school.

Jon Peterson 4:15

Yeah. And then so in school, what were the subjects that you were most engaged with?

Jiana Shah 4:21

So my subjects that probably I think were economics, global politics, math, approaches, and analysis. And I think even when I was in the MYP, these were the subjects that interested me the most. So it was no surprise that I took them at the higher level once I entered DP. But I also did French abonitio, English language and literature, along with Chemistry SL. French is a really interesting one here because, as you guys now know, I'm from India. It's not a very famous or widely spoken language here. So back when I was in ninth grade, I decided that I wanted to learn French. And it was offered through the DP program at my school. So I started learning French out of this like thought process that if I already start, then by the time I'm there in 11th grade, I'll probably have a good grasp of it. And funnily enough, because of that, I am now going to college in Paris.

Jon Peterson 5:18

Oh, really?

Jiana Shah 5:18

So, you know, yeah. So I am heading off to a GC Paris. So it kind of all just worked out in its favor just because I thought that I knew I wanted to learn French abonatio in DP. I started learning in MYP. And now because of the fluency I achieved, I'm able to go to Paris for college. How awesome is that?

Jon Peterson 5:36

That's cool. So even with the abonitio, which is sometimes thought of not quite getting you to fluency, you've been able to do that.

Jiana Shah 5:44

Yeah, no, for sure. And I think it also like I started learning French on my own for two years. So, but I think even as I entered the ab initio, there was like a structural absence where I could not grasp the, I would say like the grammar dictums of the language, I could understand it, but it was all very like I would just say like the ab initio helped me build a foundation for the language. So it was beyond just conversational fluency. I now knew like how sentence structures work. And I think we don't think that much about this when we talk about English, but I think once you start doing any language, whether that's ab initio, SL, or HL, I think it really shows you just how language structures work and how important they are, even without us realizing it.

Jon Peterson 6:29

Yeah, I think when you learn a language early, those things come naturally. And then as you're older and you go, Oh, there's a formality. I remember learning German when I was in college and going, I didn't even realize we had gendered nouns in English. They were just always there, you know. Okay, well, that's really cool. And so you you listed off a number of the courses. Did you say which HL courses did you end up taking, high-level courses in DP?

Jiana Shah 6:54

So I took economics, I took global politics, and I took math analysis and approaches.

Jon Peterson 7:00

Okay, both as a as those are your HLs, okay. And the drum roll, please. How did it all let's get right to the how did the exams and so on go?

Jiana Shah 7:10

Yeah, they went pretty well. I mean, if any of our listeners here are teachers, they know just how tedious, especially math AAHL, can be for students. So I would, I mean, I'm gonna be super honest. It took up like 70% of my time when it came to schoolwork because there were just so many exercises and concepts that we had to keep on revising. Global politics and economics, I thoroughly enjoyed. Those were subjects that I it was exactly what I wanted to learn. And I was so happy that I could finally delve deeper into disciplines that I was genuinely interested in. Because if everyone knows like MYP, you have to have a set number of subjects that you have to do. So that's another thing I really liked about the DP program that I could just choose what I wanted to learn. And something people might not expect is that the hardest subject I had was chemistry SL. Because I mean, if my HLs are any indication, I'm definitely a humanities student. I don't have a lot of interest in STEM outside of math. So when I had to choose chemistry SL because of like re because of like a scheduling conflict with the other choices I had, I was just, oh my man, it was the hardest thing ever. So sometimes like you could expect students to say that okay, one of my eight childs was the hardest. For me, my I know it, my friends know it, my parents know it. Chemistry SL and me, we just never got along. It was so bad. But I did learn a lot from it. Um, but yeah, so that's another thing in case you didn't know. Sometimes it's the SL that's hard. Trust me.

Jon Peterson 8:42

I've used the term before on the podcast, but I talk about what IB does with the diplomas. It forces you to eat your educational vegetables. In other words, the things that maybe you didn't think you would have to choose or whatever. And I don't know if you knew this about me, but I was a chemistry teacher. And so when you say that, that's I don't take any offense at all. I totally understand it. And I was that student, I wasn't in IB because I didn't have it when I was young, but my educational vegetables were in the arts. And now as an adult, the arts are some of my favorite things to engage in. So I'm really glad I was forced to explore that. I'm not saying you'll end up having to be a chemistry person someday, but you basically get the idea, and you certainly can't pass an uh an SL exam without a good grasp of the fundamentals. So congratulations to you on all of that. And so you did earn the diploma, I take it.

Jiana Shah 9:34

Yes. Yes, I did. But you know, speaking of chemistry and like the example you were giving me about the arts, so during one of my during the chemistry internal assessment we had, I decided to do my entire IA on coffee beans and the roast acidity. And I'm a huge coffee lover. Like I will go and look at the batch, the blend, everything. So I kid you not, like when I started doing that IA, the amount of stuff I learned about coffee roasting specifically is something I still use to this day. I got a summer job as a barista, and I am not joking. Like people will think I'm saying this for the podcast, but I'm genuinely not joking. I use my IA stuff and the learnings I had from my internal assessment as a barista today to analyze whether the batch and the blood is good or not.

Jon Peterson 10:21

Yeah. I can now with all those I can picture you sitting in one of those cafes on a parish street now, enjoying your your cappuccino or whatever and going for it. That's cool. So, you know, you've talked a we've talked through kind of the the nuts and bolts of your DP experience. Let's talk about kind of the the lifestyle of a DP student. You mentioned how much time you spent on the hardest courses. Kind of those two years that you I mean, looking back on it, it probably feels like it went by in a flash. But in the middle of it, you would have had, you know, all the time management things and your friendships and your outside activities. How can you summarize that for us in a few minutes? Just kind of how that how those years went for you.

Jiana Shah 11:02

Yeah, sure. I mean, look, it is super hectic. IBDP is no joke. For any students listening, it does take a lot of your time. But if you know how to manage the time really well, you will actually enjoy doing most of this stuff. So my day would be kind of like I would come back from school. I would just chill for two, three hours, kind of decompress, and then maybe do like one assignment here, one assignment there. I I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I was not one of those people with like a solid schedule, like three hours of studying and then just a 15-minute break and all this. I was very go with the flow, just get things done by the time they're due. But I definitely think that if people are able to manage their time, it will work wonders for them because for the IB, as compared to other traditional modes of schooling, it's not just your assignments and your homework. You also have to do a couple of submissions. And sometimes even these assignments are kind of like wacky. They're not just simple papers that you have to write. So I would say like I it's time consuming, but not in it's not super like it won't become your life if you you know know how to manage your time really well. I hung out with friends a lot, I went out a lot, I had vacations and whatnot. So it's definitely possible. Like, if there's this impression that if you do the IB, that's all you're gonna do. That's definitely not the case because we already spoke about this. I mean, I had so many extracurriculars outside of the IB too. So I think it just comes down to just being a little bit disciplined with your assignments and your submissions, especially the extended essay, IAs, etc. But otherwise, it's not that time consuming in the sense that it's not like all you're gonna do. So I think for me, what worked out was just knowing that hey, I have this due. So maybe just being vigilant about when I want to do what with my day. So even if you have a loose structure like I did, I think that's fine. You don't need to have a solid like academic weapon kind of journey.

Jon Peterson 13:12

Yeah.

Jiana Shah 13:12

So yeah, I would say that's my take on that.

Jon Peterson 13:15

Did you did you have some organizational tools that you used? It sounds like you did you just keep the schedule in your head. You must have had some things written down or in your in some app or just your calendar.

Jiana Shah 13:25

Yeah. Yeah. So what I would do is I would just have this journal and it was my task journal. So anything related to stuff I needed to do or stuff I needed to take care of, I would just write that and pro tip. If you carry that with you to school every day, you're never going to forget to use it. And trust me, I say this as someone who's used at least hundred of these. Like I've used Notion, I've used Todo Wist, I've used Google Calendar, I've tried everything. And the only thing that works for me is just writing it down and just having it with me at all times. So even the journal serves as a visual reminder of the stuff you need to do. So that personally worked out really well for me. But I also had friends who would schedule their day on Google Calendar, even the breaks and whatnot that they were taking outside of work. So I think it just comes down to like, I think 11th grade is a great way to explore this. You have less intense content when it comes to your subjects. You also have fewer submissions, and you're still figuring out what pace and rhythm you like for yourself when it comes to the IBTP and the work that comes with it. So I think 11th grade is a great way to figure out what kind of ecosystem works for you. But personally, for me, it was just this one fat diary that I had that I would just use to write all the stuff that either so to that extent, I would also write physically write the feedback I would get on my submissions from whether that be for the T O K E or IA. And I think that just really helped me remember these discussions with my supervisors and then accordingly adjust my submissions.

Jon Peterson 15:01

Okay. Yeah, that's really good advice. So let's talk a little bit about a couple of the things in the core. What was your extended essay?

Jiana Shah 15:09

So my extended essay was on the social well-being of textile workers. So I'm from a city called Surat, and we are the largest textile manufacturers in the world. So we have a pretty big industry here, and my city's known for that. So I noticed that we had a lot of influx of laborers from other states of India who would come in. And because the industry was also growing, a lot of subsidies were given out by the state government. But I wanted to see whether those subsidies that were not only in place to increase business but also bring in new human capital, I wanted to see how efficient those were in raising the living standards of the workers who would go to these factories. So I visited, I think about 15 textile factories, if I remember correctly, and interviewed about 70 workers each. And I ensured that they were very varied. So it went all the way from machine manager to someone who was doing manual labor, working daily wages. So I wanted to see whether the benefits of these schemes trickled down to the people that it was intended for. And I mean, if that's any indication, yes, my extended essay was in economics. And I so that could covered, I think doing those field visits was a huge added bonus because it covered a significant aspect of primary research, which is also a huge part of the extended essay, or at least it's recommended. Yeah. And then secondary research, I also reached out to some government officials who were in charge of this policy and saw tried to kind of make an overarching perspective on whether it actually worked or whether it was somewhat working in some areas and not working in the others. So yeah, that was my extended essay.

Jon Peterson 16:58

I always love to hear the titles. What was the title of yours?

Jiana Shah 17:02

Oh my god, it's been it's been a year. I'm not even joking. It's been a year since I submitted.

Jon Peterson 17:07

Let me just paraphrase it.

Jiana Shah 17:08

Yeah, I think it was to what extent is the Gujarat Textile 2025 policy responsible for raising the living standards of workers, and then it was like something that pertained to like the specifics of their employment, and something like, God, I haven't done this in so long.

Jon Peterson 17:32

That's fine. You know, a lot of people.

Jiana Shah 17:33

I have juniors reach out too, and I'm just like, I have no idea. I'm so sorry.

Jon Peterson 17:38

Well, for listeners, if you're not familiar with how the extended essay is assigned, it's usually started in the junior year and then it's completed or due date is some often in the fall of the senior year. So the writing is happening, you know, a year ago now. And so that's it's totally understandable. That sounds really cool. I always love when I, you know, I'm telling people about the IBM diploma program. I have a little sheet with some of the titles of the extended essays, and people are blown away because they sound like PhD, you know, dissertations, even though they're 4,000 words. But yeah.

Jiana Shah 18:08

No, that's what I say to people all the time. Like, trust me, especially extended essay is going to be, even though it seems very tedious when you're actually doing it, it is going to help you so much when you go to college because you already know how to research. So all your assignments are going to be infinitely easier for you as compared to someone who's never done any sort of research to this extent. And yeah, like I'm in a way, like in retrospect, I'm glad that I went through all of that. So now I know what I did correct, what I could have done better, and overall how to research really well as a person.

Jon Peterson 18:43

Yeah. Yeah. And again, when you described all the interviews you did and the various ways you did research, I bet you you had a hard time cutting down to 4,000 words.

Jiana Shah 18:52

Oh, yeah. My supervisor was just like, I don't know what to do with your first draft. It's too much. Like, yeah, it's like I think it was like 8,000 or 9,000 words.

Jon Peterson 19:03

I know. That's what people are just they're amazed at. You know, it just, you know, 4,000 words is what is that, 30 pages or something? You know, and so it's like, you know, you only get 30 pages to put it down. So anyway, that's cool. Let's talk, let's move on to the core of your cast work. I guess it probably has something to do with some of the things you talked about you did when you're 14, but or 16. But what did you end up? What were some of the highlights of your cast?

Jiana Shah 19:27

Oh, my cast, I like to think was super varied. So I think for creativity, I did, I think I organized a conference and it had to do with it was like a model UN conference, but it was also specifically, we did it with in collaboration with certain governmental schools in India. So for those who don't know, governmental schools in India are usually reserved for underprivileged children. It's free of cost. So I think that's where we did the creativity part of it. And then it also included like this arts competition with it. It was just a huge fest with a lot of different verticals. So model UN was one of them that I was helping out with. But then I also did, I made them play a couple of games that had to do with Montessori learning. And it was so one thing about my school is we do a lot of group events. So for a lot of people, our cast activities, as compared to being, okay, I did this, you did this, and he did that. We would have these huge events where all of us would partake and then we would each have our own roles. And I think that's a great way to not only organize something that's that has more impact, but also get your past requirement fulfilled. We also did this thing called a rural immersion. So we went to the rural areas of India. I think we went to one of the those places in my state, and we basically stayed with locals. As locals, we would sit in brick huts, have traditional food, and we would help them with their day-to-day activity. So everything from toiling the soil on the ground on their like farmland to yeah, yeah. So we did everything. We cooked food with them, we learned about their biodiversity, and we helped them with their day-to-day, and that included putting cow dung on the walls. So trust me, when it says rural immersion, it's proper rural immersion for the service part. And then for activity, I did, I remember doing, I think like a country, uh cross country run was one thing. I partook in a pickleball tournament, and that was the first time I ever played pickleball. So that was pretty interesting because now I played pickleball at least once a week. So there you go. Another thing I carried on from the IV.

Jon Peterson 21:37

I play that all the time myself.

Jiana Shah 21:39

I love it. Oh my god. So yeah, I think that was uh my cast activities were pretty weary, I would like to say. And I think I loved that year, you know, we it was like a new experience you get to do, even though it's for a requirement you have to fulfill. I still think there's a lot to learn from those experiences, nonetheless.

Jon Peterson 21:57

Oh, that's great. And then if I recall, when we talked to you. Years ago, you were a little skeptical of the T OK course, am I right? And I don't know if and so you've now completed the T OK and what goes with it, theory of knowledge. How did in the end, what did you think?

Jiana Shah 22:12

I yeah, I don't get why I was skeptical because I am not joking. The T OK was hands down the best course I've done from the IB. And that includes all of my subjects and all all the CATS requirements, all the services action, everything. The TOK is to put it in simple words, if I had to do the T OK for the rest of my life as a student, I would. I loved it so much. The way it pushes your critical thinking boundaries, but also there's a moral aspect to it. Where do we blur the lines between what seems logical and what seems ethical? Like those discussions in the T OK classroom are some of the best memories I have from school. Such, I mean, I initially when I went in when I was in 11th grade, I kind of felt really uncomfortable in class because I was like, these are questions that personally have nothing to do with me. But I think about a month in, and I realized just how important it is that people my age ask these questions and think about them as compared to just consuming knowledge from via either social media or what they're being taught in classrooms. So I loved the T O K. I loved the I loved how interactive the course is because you really are the course. There's you can have all the material in the world, but if it's your thoughts and your opinions and those of your classmates and your supervisors that ultimately build the course to lead it to achieve what it's meant to do. So I really loved the T OK. I mean, I even the exhibition and the report, those are the two components that we submit. I loved writing those because those were some of my absolute favorite assignments to write. I mean, I would look forward to meeting my supervisor to see what he thought about this one object that I took for my T OK and whether a T OK exhibition report and whether it connects well with the prompt. Same goes for the essay too. So yeah, I don't know why I was skeptical of it, but maybe it was too, I think, uncomfortable for someone who is used to just being taught in the classroom and giving a test as a result of it. So yes, please, I encourage all students to take the TOK seriously, but not just because it's an IB requirement that you need to fulfill, but also because it will help you think in a way that isn't something that you're just being fed through different mediums. And I think that's at a foundation level what the IB is trying to do.

Jon Peterson 24:47

Yeah, exactly. I think that is one of the genius aspects of the design of the diploma program is the TOK being the often used as a metaphor as the central hub of a spoked wheel, and all the you know, the subjects are out the spokes. I would love to, when you started commenting about this and you said if I could take T OK for the rest of my life, I would. I don't know if you know this, but I do a senior citizen version of T OK every Monday. So I teach a excuse me, I teach a bunch of folks at a senior home near me. So most of my quote unquote students are 75 to 90 years old, and I use the TOK model to do the discussions. And it's very popular. I have about a dozen senior citizens every Monday with me for an hour, and we do, I give them a bunch of current events and some prompt questions, and we just go. And sometimes they'll go off on something. But one of the cool things about it is as senior seniors, they've lived uh a long life, they've had a lot of experiences, they've, you know, had relationships, they've had careers, and some of them are actually still working, and they are always excited to talk about what they've learned, and it's all based on T OK. So it is kind of cool, and I would continue to I would encourage you to find ways to have T OK the rest of your life. You know, whether it's a coffee shop discussion with a friend or a colleague or you know, and whatever, you know, with someday maybe children or whatever, it's gonna be it's gonna be something you'll continue to love to do. So I'm glad you really enjoyed it. That's cool. So then let's let's kind of talk about a couple of things. You know, let me just ask one question that was just kind of went to my brain. So obviously today education is changing. Uh, I think AI is becoming a centerpiece of the discussion about education. How did that play into your last couple of years? Because you would have been one of the first generation of students to have AI as kind of sitting there, kind of going either tempting or helping, or you were you wrestled it and you've got control of it and you know what to do with it. Talk a little bit about how that's affected your education the last couple of years.

Jiana Shah 26:50

So I think when we were first introduced to tools like ChatGPT, I think Claude came a lot later, but ChatGPT, we thought it was this like magical wonder kind of who's just like all the answers you could ever need to any assignment or any submission, you could get it. But eventually, once you use enough of it, you realize just how how much the IB is based on your personal thought process and what it's trying to build is that when you think, why are you thinking that way? I think that's kind of like the premise that the IB is trying to instill into students, always question even what you think is so innate. So I think for Chad G for AI tools, I personally, as someone who's also a literature lover, I could I did not use it too much. I used it a lot for idea generation and perfecting what I'd already kind of submitted or written. But I think even though it seems like the easy way out, you are kind of trading that for the quality of your content. So even though like you can say, okay, I can do XYZ to bypass those AI checkers that I think all organizations use now. I still think it hampers the quality that of the content that you're submitting. So to all Ivy students, I think know what you should use AI for. Use it to get ideas, use it to perfect your ideas. Maybe, I mean, I used it a lot for like formatting and structuring. I would give it the rubric of how they wanted certain documents to be structured and then have it tell me where I think I could improve. But I think when you use it to generate the content that you yourself are supposed to think about and write, it can do that. You can submit it. I think there are now tools that help you bypass any kind of checking from your school. I just don't think it's worth it. I think whatever original content that you can produce on your own helps a lot. You can use it for checking like your math assignments and things to or helping it explain to you something that you some something that your supervisors or teachers can't like let's say you're at home and you're doing homework and you don't understand why this answer came out to be, use AI to understand the process. But I when it comes to kind of writing stuff and when it comes to yeah, don't make AI think for you. I think that's what I'm trying to say. Don't let AI think for you or for what you're trying to say. I never I don't think that works well at all. And I think even if you put any prompt, even if it's the T O K or the E E, you will see that whatever you produce on your own is going to always be better than whatever paragraphs they're spewing just based off of one prompt.

Jon Peterson 29:39

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, good. Well, thanks. I wanted to, I just kind of came to mind that I should ask about that because it's kind of the elephant in the room in education these days, and folks are looking for some ways to approach it. So let's talk about, you know, kind of now where you're at now. You just mentioned you're going to Paris. Remind us, what's what school are you going to there?

Jiana Shah 29:57

So I Paris is actually a sec is the second part of my degree. So I'm pursuing a double degree in politics and finance, specifically statistics. So first I'll go to Milan for a year and a half. So start I'm going in September. So till the end of 2027, I'm going to be in Milan at Baconi University. And then I'm going to move to Paris to study. So that's the politics part. And then to study finance, I'm going to move to Paris to study at HEC Paris. So that's a business school.

Jon Peterson 30:27

Yeah, very cool. Very cool. And so did you feel like did the diploma program background that you have, do you feel that played a role in being accepted and kind of did they, you know, take a look at your DP and have some advantages because you were a DP student?

Jiana Shah 30:47

Yeah, so I think that there were two things. So one for my application, I mean, as is the case with most American applications, you'd know, is I had to list a lot of extracurriculars. And coincidentally, a lot of those were things that I either started or considered as my caste requirements. So that definitely helped out. I mean, they never expected someone who was studying finance for that matter to be working with indigenous tribal communities in my state. So I think that definitely helped. But I think more so than that aspect of it, we had to write this essay for what we want to get out of the program. And I think that's one of the best essays personally that I've ever written because the program was so similar to what I did in the IB. It's multi, it does a lot of domains to it. And it's, I mean, I literally have a class called Critical Thinking 101, and it's for the entire duration of my course. So I think when I could tell them about what my last four years in high school have been and why I think it's this program would be a good continuation of that. I also think that played a huge part in my acceptance, apart from other metrics like grades and all. So yeah, I definitely think the IV helped a lot with the acceptance part of it. And more so than that, I feel prepared for college. I yeah, like I'm ready to tackle any assignments, research projects head on, because I've already been super comfortable in those areas. So now I know it's just taking it to a higher level as compared to starting a new.

Jon Peterson 32:24

Yeah, that's great. So, do you have any recommendations or any thoughts for people who are either thinking about going into the IB? And remember, your goal, your audience is global, so people from all over the world will be listening to this, not just students in your state. What do you recommend or what thoughts do you have? Or things would you what it I don't really like to use the word advice because it's just your own experience. But what would you say to people who are considering the IB or are in the middle of it?

Jiana Shah 32:50

So I so a fair disclaimer, I'm just speaking as someone who did the IB, and that's not to say that I think the IB is better than other options available. But the reason my parents and I, like my parents chose the IB, and then I chose to continue with it all of these years, was again coming back to it makes you think in ways you wouldn't otherwise. I don't think students, in fact, realize just how much the IB shapes them because I would never question, like the IB taught me to question things, even though they may seem very obvious. I mean, the T OK plays a huge part there, just knowing how to think. And when you know how to think or think properly, I think it just kind of trickles down to all other aspects of your life as a student or just as a person. So the thing I the reason I recommend the IB to everyone is it is beyond just classroom classroom learning that again becomes tests and tests become results. It's a lot more than that, even though yes, that's a part of it. But I think the lessons you learn from doing all of this are kind of things you carry. I mean, it sounds cliche, but you do carry them for the rest of your life. I mean, I don't think I would be the person I am today if it weren't for the IB. So yeah, I would say go for it, but also if that's something that's that you're comfortable with. Like I said, we also spoke about how time-consuming it can be. So for others who are looking into, for example, I had a lot of friends leave the IB because they wanted to do entrance exams for engineering and medical colleges in India, and they're super tough. So it makes sense for them to leave the IB and just pursue those, pursue the preparation of those exams. So I think take a look and assess what your situation after high school is going to be like. And if it seems like you want to thrive in an environment where constantly questioning things, everything's a discussion, never a lecture, I think go for the IB.

Jon Peterson 34:51

Oh, that's great. Yeah, and I think is there anything that, you know, as far as I told you before we started recording, I wanted you to be honest, not to just gloss over any of the great things. What were the some biggest challenges or things that maybe you experienced that maybe would be hard for other people to deal with or hard for you, they were hard for you to deal with?

Jiana Shah 35:10

I think probably for me, it was having to choose subjects that I did not want to. So chemistry, I spoke to you that even though yes, I did learn something out of it, I applied to my life in my life today. I still think that I would have been a much better student at global politics, math, AA, and econ if I did not have to divert some of my time to chemistry. So I think we talk about like, okay, with the IB, you get to put your eggs in lots of baskets. You get to put them in six baskets instead of the traditional two or three. But I also think that comes with the consequence of having to deal with six subjects at once, which can be a lot for students who like me are essentially just interested in the top three. Yeah. So we always used to kind of compare ourselves with, let's say, the British schooling system where you only take two or three subjects, three subjects, I think, and you go all in. So I think personally I would have loved that along with the T-OK, EE, and CAS. So I think if that were to be kind of handled in some manner, I think it would be better. Or maybe don't restrict it to the sciences, maybe have a completely separate field that you can also take in kind of in place of the sciences, something like that. I also think the DP program is super like it starts off really late. You kind of, I at least for my school, we spent the first, I think, five months just accustoming ourselves to the program. Whereas I think that's when, you know, IA orientation, CAS orientation, TOK orientation, those could have started. I'm not saying we need to go head on into submitting those documents, but when we're a lot more familiar with the structure, whether even if it's activities like looking at past IA examples and just analyzing what they could have done better and where they think they've scored really well, I would have been a lot more comfortable as compared to having all my submissions towards the end of the year. And as soon as that's done, college app season hits, as soon as that's done, you have your mock exams and then your finals. Like 12th grade was really tough, at least for me. And I have it on good authority. It was for a lot of other people because of just how everything just kept on going on and on when we had these like six months and the first year where we could have had some idea.

Jon Peterson 37:30

Yeah. So you feel like, and you know, to summarize that, it sounds like if you stretched it out a little bit, having it all compressed in two years, it would have been nice to kind of have some of that orientation stuff happen last year in MYP, some of those things.

Jiana Shah 37:44

Yeah, or even at the start of 11th grade, just start getting us comfortable with the idea of what these submissions look like. I think it would have been relatively easy because once you know what you're supposed to do, it takes you a lot less time to finish it as compared to just having to figure out everything as soon as the first document hits your Google Classroom.

Jon Peterson 38:04

Yeah. You're probably not aware of this at this point, but the IB is definitely looking at the diploma program and looking at making some changes that will be kind of significant probably by 3030 or 2030. So it'll be interesting to hear. And I know a lot of IB people from the IB organization listen to this. So you'll be heard. So hopefully that'll get spread out a little bit. Well, yeah, thanks. And then any final thoughts? I'm just again so tickled that I'm able to follow up with you a couple of times here and to see how you've grown over the last four years. And any final thoughts you have to kind of share with the audience about your experience or what they could be experiencing?

Jiana Shah 38:44

Yeah, for sure. I mean, look, the IB, I mentioned this at the start of the podcast too. It's a roller coaster ride. Sometimes you're going to love what you're doing in class and love all these hands-on projects and presentations. And sometimes you're three, it's 3 a.m. You're in your you're at your desk and you're staring at a document, not knowing what you've just written for the past two hours and having to start at scratch when your supervisor meeting is the very next day. So look, it's a lot. It is supposed to be a lot, but going back, even all the way back to kindergarten where my parents decided to put me in the IB, I would not have it any other way. Like for all the times I've said, this is too much. Why am I doing this? Why am I just not submitting homework, giving tests, and you know, getting out of school? I would not have it any other way. There are faults. There are some that there are some things that I wish I could have done differently. But overall, I genuinely think this was the best decision that I could have made when it came to my high school or just in general school schooling. So yeah, I mean, I am a huge proponent of the IB, even despite all the little flaws it has. And parents, if you're listening to this, please go ahead and enroll your kids here if you think that's the right fit for them. It is one of, in my opinion, the best education systems you can have. And yeah, it just teaches you how to be a great thinker. And I think there's nothing more important than that in today's world. So yeah. So that's what my IB journey has been like. Hopefully, I will continue putting those learnings into action as I head off to university and then become an adult.

Jon Peterson 40:32

Yeah, I think you're well on your way to that. So, well, gosh, Gianna, thank you so much for coming back and talking to me again and to everyone listening. They're gonna just find this really enlightening. And I know as I share this with my colleagues in the IB organization, they're gonna want to quote you many times because you are a delight. You are a great young lady, and I we are all looking forward to seeing what you do and how you change the world going ahead. So thanks again.

Jiana Shah 41:01

Yes, thank you so much for having me. I was genuinely so happy to see that in email in my inbox. I was like, oh my god, this is going to be the perfect opportunity. I think going back, like if I had someone like this, like just see what their journey has been through, I think I would have found that really helpful too. So, yes, thank you so much for having me. It's been a delight this time, and it's always been a delight speaking to you the past two times as well.

Jon Peterson 41:26

Okay, well, thanks, Chiana. Thanks for listening. Please check out the podcast notes for links related to this episode. We've now have over 135 IB Matters episodes covering a wide range of subjects. To help you find topics of interest to you, use our podcast webpage linked in the notes. There's also a link in the notes to directly text us with comments, suggestions, or let me know that you'd like to appear on a future episode of IB Matters. Find all our episodes wherever you get your podcast and hit subscribe so you don't miss any future programs. Please note that we're migrating our social network presence away from X. Find us on Instagram at IB underscore matters. Also help spread the word about IB by liking, sharing, and reviewing the IB Matters links in your own feeds and social networks. Now in our seventh year, we've been heard in over 180 countries a testament to the global reach of the IB.